Season 6, Episode 34 (#187):

Jim (00:36.617)
Well it's sunny here, but I hear the rain is coming. So I'm gonna take some some wildflower seeds and sprinkle them in the backyard and see if anything pops up.

Lionel (00:46.614)
Is it is it any particular type of wildflowers or is it just like a mix?

Jim (00:49.395)
Well, these were gifted. So they were sent in the mail. I don't actually know what kind. so I they could just be they could just be weeds. That's all right. It it would be an improvement over what's back there right now.

Lionel (00:56.45)
They're hemp.

Lionel (01:05.59)
We we should do that as part of suboptimal industry. Bulk weed seeds. Mixed premium mixed weeds. Dandelion, Bishop's weed, crabgrass.

Jim (01:10.559)
Just hemp.

Yeah.

Jim (01:18.761)
Yeah. Got your crab grass and I like that.

Lionel (01:26.188)
We do we do specialty mixes for different parts of the country and for what you want. Do you want, you know? that would be hilarious. Just right.

Jim (01:30.773)
Gimson weed. I've got some invasive species, something you'll never get rid of.

Lionel (01:38.433)
Yeah, you know, purple purple loose stripe, purple loose stripe, the poster child of invasive species. That'd be brilliant. And it's like because if you go to like I went I one time went to this place, this w this l place that makes seeds, you know, special seed mixtures. My God. It's like it's a big business. And so we could come up with these we could come up with fabulous stuff. It'd be so good, you know, like

Jim (01:45.865)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jim (01:54.474)
Yeah. it's a big it's a thing. Yeah. yeah, seeds.

Jim (02:05.287)
Yeah, I'm I I'm friends.

Lionel (02:06.782)
Eco e Ecocide. The eighth the Eco Side series.

Jim (02:11.965)
I'm friends with a burpee. That's a big name in a burpee. Yeah, big name in seeds.

Lionel (02:14.54)
You're friends with a Who? yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do I have mine here? No, I I forget what the name is of the C company I got I bought from, but that would be hilarious. We really should do we should just put together the website and do all the pictures and stuff like that and see if anybody actually buys them. Right?

Jim (02:29.129)
Just angry bamboo, you know, like something just make stuff up. Like don't listen, this stuff it's gonna be everywhere. Kudzu.

Lionel (02:39.006)
Asian menace mix.

Jim (02:45.781)
Barbed Barbed Thorn sickle.

Lionel (02:47.886)
The hellfires of Africa. Right. Bramble.

Life the life threatening mix.

If you wanna draw blood. This is the mix for you. Thorns, brambles, nettle. Right. Nightshade.

Jim (03:04.883)
Mm. That's right. And our very special edition, Flowers of Mordor. Yeah.

Lionel (03:18.606)
That would be we gotta I no no s somebody else has gotta do it 'cause it's it the all the fun isn't describing it. Actually doing it is a pain in the ass, but that'd be the flowers of the flowers of les fleurs de mal in order of Paul Baudelaire. You just have so much fun just making up the names, you know, like literary collections, you know, till death do us part.

Jim (03:19.611)
Yeah.

Jim (03:27.029)
That's right. Suboptimal solutions presents

Jim (03:37.299)
Yeah, that's right. Fleurs de mal.

Jim (03:46.792)
Afflictive.

Lionel (03:48.204)
with you know, nightshade and hemlock and stuff like that. that'd be great.

Jim (03:52.999)
A an affliction of growth. Just

Lionel (03:55.872)
Ha ha ha.

Lionel (04:01.998)
Green monstrosity.

Jim (04:02.063)
Exactly. Speaking of an affliction, I read I read the entire thing. I may have skipped a little bit. I l so I listened to the audiobook is which is read by the author. And I'm gonna get the the author's name wrong because that's my specialty. I get

Lionel (04:07.432)
Well.

Lionel (04:21.452)
Look, do we even wanna d do we really do we even wanna talk about this because

Jim (04:24.593)
I p I I put the time in. We should at least ten minutes, fifteen minutes. my god. techno feudalism and and cap and the end of capitalism.

Lionel (04:28.992)
And I'm gonna sl I'm gonna dish it out now.

Lionel (04:37.612)
Yannis

Lionel (04:41.92)
Wow.

Jim (04:43.579)
And yeah, here it is. Penguin books, yeah, by Janis Varufakis. Mmm.

Lionel (04:52.28)
Former finance minister for the for Greece? No. Yeah, no. I don't I don't want to know anything. I'm just like

Jim (04:56.797)
Yeah. There's a picture of him on Penguin. Yeah. He sounds like he like you would imagine he sounds in from his writing. A very thick Greek accent.

Lionel (05:15.16)
Baby. What a

Jim (05:16.074)
Yeah, it was it was tough. And the thing that I that really got me listening, reading this book, was he he very confidently set up categories and structures and definitions, and then based his logic based on these categories and definitions that he set up. And I understand they have precedence. the techno structure keeps coming up.

This is the technostructure. Right. But John Kenneth Galbraith also coined the term neo feudalism. And he fails to make the case, I think, that technofealism is anything different really than what Galbraith talks about in neofeudalism. I understand the sort of technofeudalism is made to take over our minds, but that's assuming that capitalism wasn't doing that before. I mean it

Lionel (05:45.016)
From John Kenneth Gailbrigh, right.

Lionel (06:11.81)
To begin with.

Jim (06:14.143)
Kind of is the whole thing. capitalism invented Santa Claus. I mean the Coca-Cola Company literally invented Santa Claus. So, you know, yeah, they've been it's like, yeah, it dictates culture, dictates opinion. It gets you to buy nylons and cars. He keeps bringing up Don Draper, which is interesting.

Lionel (06:20.567)
Students.

Lionel (06:35.65)
Yeah, he he brings up Don Draper and he brings up the Minotaur and it's just like, Yeah, I get it, dude. You're you're you're bringing an eclectic mix of external cultural references. I don't care. Are your are your arguments cogent? No.

Jim (06:52.915)
I don't I that but that was the thing. It it it was a l I mean it was a lot of economic talk, economic history talk, and I I didn't think that he made his case well enough. I I just it just didn't convince me that this is a completely new thing that will kill capitalism. It you know, the fact that what we're

Paying with is our attention and what we're buying is in the cloud just doesn't change enough for me to say this is a new economy. It's just not. who was it? The the inventor of the MP3. I was listening to him not too long ago. He works at Microsoft now. Yeah. Yeah, the inventor of the MP3. I it's no. yeah, no, maybe it had meant maybe it had multiple inventors.

Lionel (07:26.668)
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Lionel (07:37.09)
The inventor of the MP three?

Lionel (07:42.934)
A German guy?

Jim (07:49.211)
I know

Lionel (07:49.422)
'Cause the MP three the MP three protocol is was developed mainly by the Fraunhofer Institute in Germany.

Jim (08:00.225)
I wish this guy would I actually I dig he has he has dreads, he's really funky looking. maybe it'll come to me in a minute, but he was saying, you know, people say, you know, bits don't bits have no cost, but he's like, that's not really true. You know, there are a number of costs leading to recording something on a bit of information. you know, and those it's just that we ignore those costs because

Lionel (08:24.482)
Yes.

Jim (08:29.459)
We think that their

Lionel (08:29.826)
The resulting thing is immateri is just is is a is an idea, but there are costs going into creating that idea.

Jim (08:32.937)
Right.

Jim (08:40.317)
Yeah, yeah. And we're seeing with data centers is there's quite a lot of cost going. It's at scale, there's quite a cost. And you know, it people use the word cloud, but it's not a cloud. It's warehouses full of computers running round the clock. There's a lot of electricity.

Lionel (08:47.597)
Yes.

Lionel (08:54.924)
Yep. And to a certain degree, you can't you it's and a certain degree, this is an interesting conversation. You you can't really divorce so the bit is an ideological concept. It's like it's a one or a zero. Okay, great. But it's a piece of magnetic flux. It it has an instantiation. It's a pit or a land on a C on a piece of foil in a C D. It is a piece of magnetic flux on a rotating feral, you know.

Jim (09:07.145)
You're right. Yeah.

Jim (09:12.893)
Yes.

Lionel (09:24.594)
magnetic disc. and that disc needs power and needs to be protected from s you know contamination that has to rotate at a very specific speed and it's manufactured. So yeah, there even though the concept is immaterial, there has to be an instantiation, just like copyright says, you know, the definition of copyright of an artistic work, you know, the definition of an artistic of a creative work is a for copyright is a creative work.

Jim (09:26.399)
Right.

Lionel (09:54.463)
fixed in a permanent in a in a physical medium. and so, yeah, there has to be I'm sorry, I that was a huge rabbit hole. I for forgive me.

Jim (09:57.878)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (10:03.561)
No, no, but I I I think I think that's important. I mean it it's funny. I do sometimes I take on new web clients and I'm like, well, okay, there's there's like a yeah, sometimes I get new customers. Yeah. And and every once in a while somebody will be like, Wait, why do I need why is there a service fee? Why is there an ongoing fee? I just want to pay for the website once. And I said, Well, do you pay for electricity once?

Lionel (10:09.902)
Y you get new customers? That's hilarious.

Jim (10:29.521)
No, I no, I have a bill comes every month. I'm like, yeah, well, I also pay for the electricity that, you know, among other things that runs the server, as well as like yeah, I'm hosting it. So that's as well as the secure location, the cooling that's required, the backup storage, the you know, changing out the hard drives every once in a while. yeah. You know, you don't want people just walking in from the street and stealing your server. So it's it's a secure location behind many doors.

Lionel (10:37.374)
because you're hosting it. you're hosting it. Okay. We're not talking about design. Yeah. Yeah. Security.

Lionel (10:48.886)
Yeah.

Jim (10:57.833)
There are backup generators. yeah, I mean it's they ch they don't charge me everything they spend. They charge me just for what I'm using. And it's significant. And yeah, you you have to pay into that. That's that's part of the deal. These these things actually cost money. Bandwidth costs money.

Lionel (11:00.75)
Yeah.

Lionel (11:16.034)
They involve effort and time and expertise and thought and concern.

Jim (11:19.733)
Yeah. Yeah, multiple connections to the internet for from different sources in case one goes down. It's it's yeah, it's I'm trying to avoid the sun glare here hitting my face. yeah, it's you know, it's a thing. but yeah, so but the because of the cloud, because when we say it's the cloud, then it's not like you're building trains or cars or

Lionel (11:37.964)
Yeah. But how do we get onto this? So bit doesn't cost anything.

Jim (11:48.5)
you know, radios that that somehow the immateriality of it being in the cloud doesn't fundamentally changes something. But no, it's you're paying for a service and you're either paying with your attention watching ads, or you're paying with your wallet. What is the difference? Why is technofeudalism different than neo-feudalism, which you can certainly make an argument for? You know, the capitalists own us. That you can make an argument for.

Lionel (12:06.499)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (12:17.907)
The more we are victims of rent, you know. that that all makes sense, you know, with but the central argument just keeps looking for a way to prove itself. And he and he really spends too many chapters giving us the background, like the economic background, with kind of a semi-Marxist slant leading up to now, which is where you want to get to since it's the title of the book, and then

He doesn't prove it. He doesn't prove that anything different is happening now. And that's very frustrating. It's a very frustrating read. it it it is very, it felt a lot like, you know, believe me, trust me, bro, trust me, bro, trust me, bro. This is these are the active structures. I didn't buy it. I know a lot of people really like this book and they think it's really important.

Lionel (13:13.495)
Jim (13:16.383)
breakthrough or something, but I I just found it annoying.

Lionel (13:19.606)
I'll get it.

It's amazing how incompetent people are explaining their ideas. I mean, I I get this, I watch, you know, I'm a big fan of science and technology and the history of science and technology. And there are there are very few people who explain it well. There's a lot of people, I watch a lot of videos on the internet. I watch number file and I watch this and I watch that and I watch

Jim (13:23.092)
And

Lionel (13:51.657)
spaced PBS space time and I watch Astrum and I watch a lot of different things. And a lot of these people, you know, when they get to the hard part, they wave their hands.

Jim (14:05.235)
Yeah, well, the hard part in this book is the very last chapter where he's like escaped from technofeudalism. And so he proposes a really bizarre system of companies with limited tokens and e sort of everyone in the company gets the same token, but it's mixed a little bit with a social capital element, sort of like China has, but he doesn't quite explain who doles out the social capital. There's some kind of

Committee that decides who I mean that's like merit in my books, but there's gonna be a committee that decides who has a social capital. And then I think their token is it fac it factors into their token in terms of decision making. Everyone in the company s has a token to to vote, and so everyone in the company guides the company, which sounds like a horrific idea, right? I mean

Lionel (15:02.218)
It sounds like a co op. Yeah.

Jim (15:03.773)
A c it's not a comp bra exactly. And and you know, the co-op is like we need to have we need to have twelve different kinds of snack machines on every floor. It it it you end up I don't know, I just imagine you end up missing the purpose of what you're doing when you're bringing everyone together to kind of vote on the direction of the company. They kind of turn it into a dorm situation rather than something that makes a profit, you know.

It's not that I'm in love with capitalism. I don't think that the system we have that works really well, but the system that he proposes was so incredibly complicated.

And and based on still, I mean just I like after a while I stopped. I was listening to the book. I just couldn't listen to the to like I I was just like I had too many questions, was like, wait a minute, that's not gonna he's on to something else now. I c I can't

Lionel (15:53.966)
Right I give up.

Lionel (16:01.328)
yeah. It's just like these science shows. They're like, and if you can see the prime spiral intersects at 45 degrees. Wait, wait, what? What? Okay, now on to the next thing. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's like a really critical part. You gotta like explain that. And they don't, and people don't really explain things because honestly, I don't think a lot of people really understand things. And I also think and also another problem is that it's very messy.

Jim (16:09.363)
What?

Hmm. That's right.

Lionel (16:29.206)
And very complex. Like if you actually dig down into science and discovery, it's the story we've been told is a very nice, very well polished, very refined, very easy to digest story. The truth is a lot harder, you know, and and science is extraordinarily hard to do. And like even something as simple as friction.

Jim (16:42.441)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Right.

Jim (16:50.801)
yeah.

Lionel (16:55.062)
Everybody's, you know, when you learn friction in physics, it's like there's the coefficient of static friction, which is, you know, for a given material and a given object on it, how much force you have to exert to get it to move. Because friction is a force that's holding it say. That's the coefficient of static friction, because you're trying to accelerate a mass from zero. And then once it starts moving, you then have the coefficient of kinetic friction, which is a different coefficient, because everybody sort of agrees that once something gets rolling.

it the the friction changes. It's different with a moving object than with a static object. And the answer is it's a lot more complex than that. I mean it's like they they really, you know, it's very, very, I've read some articles that are like, yeah, friction is really complex and it it varies wildly. And part of the problem with science is you've got to cut through that noise. You know, there's so much noise in the signal that you gotta you got to place a bet that I think it's in there.

Jim (17:32.991)
Right.

Jim (17:41.866)
Right.

Lionel (17:54.755)
I think it's over there where the real principles are and you go towards that. and and you gotta cut out the noise because you know, figuring out that you know, figuring out that the planets are moving in a in a in a in an elliptical rather than a circular orbit, it's really hard.

Jim (17:56.085)
Yeah.

Jim (18:13.652)
Yeah.

Lionel (18:15.49)
Because the Earth itself is moving elliptical orbit. The Earth is not rotating in a completely coherent fashion. It wobbles this way and it wobbles that way. And there's a 22-year period, and then there's a 40,000-year-old. There's all these different permutations of the whole thing that mess up the noise. So the problem is, getting back to the original point, is that people really gloss this stuff over. And it's like, you really can't. it's you're doing a disservice to the human endeavor by saying,

Jim (18:17.982)
Right.

Lionel (18:44.034)
that by glossing the stuff over and like he does in this book, it's it's just an endless string of regurgitations of previous very high level blow offs of really complex concepts.

Jim (18:52.884)
Yeah.

Jim (18:59.689)
I think the thing is he doesn't make the case that what Don Draper was doing is different.

and it's funny that he brings up Don Draper because Don Draper says a number of things in that, which is really Ogilvy, who really I I think the character's based on Ogilvy and who's I forget the his first name, but he was he was a as my dad said, he was a big ego in the advertising agencies. And and

Lionel (19:27.502)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (19:32.593)
Yeah, I don't want to say too much. But but but yeah, so Ogil V was, you know, the one who was like, you know, what you think of as love is something that advertising agencies invented to sell nylons, which is a line in Mad Men. and it's true, it but it but I maybe you can say advertising isn't doing that anymore and social media is.

Lionel (19:58.199)
Yeah, but but people have been creating things. If you if you listen to Yuval Harari, you know, he says money is one of the greatest stories ever told. And he said the greatest tellers of that story are the bankers and the financiers and the fund managers. It's a story because the money itself has no value. It's you just gotta convince everybody.

Jim (20:05.381)
Mm-hmm.

Lionel (20:24.3)
That so his big thing, of course, you know, y Yuval Harari, I mean, he talks about religion and he talks about money. And he talks about language. It's really begins with language. That's the that's the critical technological evolution you need. But once you have language, it allows you to hack people's heads. That's the key thing about language, is it allows you to hack somebody else's behavior just with audio oscillating with just noises. You tell a story. And

Jim (20:49.481)
Yeah, yeah. Telling a story. Telling a compelling story. I mean, it still comes down to that. Whether you're an ad you're an av an old school advertising executive or you're somebody a an influencer on social media, it comes or the reverend or the yeah, absolutely. It it comes down to telling a convincing story, a compelling story, something that moves people and makes them do things. it was it was it Yuva Harari who said

Lionel (21:02.208)
Or you're the reverend. You're the reverend in the pulpit. Or you're the politician on the podium.

Lionel (21:11.714)
You've got to convince people. Right.

Jim (21:19.421)
It's easier for us to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism.

Lionel (21:25.89)
I don't I don't remember if he did. Could could well be, but I don't think I don't know if Yuvall cares that much about the end of capitalism. He cares about other things. but yeah, I I he might have said that. But the key thing, though, the point that he keeps harping on, and he does a good job because he is a clear thinker. He he I may not agree with all of his agenda, and he has an agenda.

Jim (21:27.486)
and that's one of those quotes is floating out there.

Jim (21:34.996)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (21:45.972)
Mm-hmm.

Lionel (21:51.587)
But he is very good at distilling. He has that Francis Fukayama vibe of just distilling thoughts down to their absolute essentials and getting it across with v in a very compelling way, which I don't believe technofeudalism does in any way, shape, or form. I think it's much more muddied and and it's just it's it's a guy just s like we're doing right now, just spooling thoughts out of his head, willy-nilly. I don't think it didn't feel like an editor.

Jim (22:09.129)
No.

Lionel (22:21.514)
If an editor looked at that book, I'm sure their recommendations were were studiously ignored. But you've go ahead.

Jim (22:27.963)
Well, it's supposed to be a letter to his dad and I mean that part is kind of charming, but it it just doesn't it doesn't read as a letter to your dad. It reads as like pounding ideas into somebody else's head with a spike. It's like it really it's really I don't understand I guess I this showed up in in in our Discord discussion is something we should read and and we have

Lionel (22:48.878)
Pain folk.

Jim (22:57.951)
You know, people that we really like here that that have said we should read it. It might have been Sarah might have recommended maybe Ben Burns, but I'm you know, and I'm sorry to those guys. I just I found it to be insufferable. that's yeah, which is my you know, I'd love to I'd love to read like a new economic theory. I think that that would be really interesting or or you know, and it and it you know, this is incredibly it's an incredibly dark and incredibly

I don't know, defeatist kind of you know, fatalist kind of a book, like like they own you and there's nothing you can do about it kind of a thing. yeah. I just that's I mean, okay. I I get it. If if you're are you warning us or you are you just tell telling us that we're like it warning us doesn't make sense because it we're doomed. Just telling us that we're doomed, and then your solution is like

Lionel (23:35.308)
Yeah, it's kinda whiny.

Jim (23:55.804)
impossible to understand at the end. Just what is this book? All right. And you and you said I read 10% of it and I had to stop. And you were the smart one. I was like, yeah, you that was, I mean, way to go.

Lionel (24:02.476)
Okay, let's move on.

Lionel (24:14.55)
Well, I read another like eight percent today, and at the end of the eight percent, I'm like, that's it. I'm I'm calling it. I'm calling it. Like I just it it's just I do not understand what he's talking about and any it's really incoherent what he's talking about. It's like when you read a Francis Fukuyama and you read a Yulval Harari, you know exactly where you are in the story. You may not like the story, and you may think it's a little simplistic, and you may think he's on the wrong track, and you may think he's a bit of a fraudster.

Jim (24:38.056)
Right.

Lionel (24:44.588)
But at least you know where you stand. He's very clear about what he's trying to pound into your head. and he doesn't hide any he doesn't talk about the minotaur and he doesn't talk about melting iron and none of that shit. He just

Jim (24:50.857)
Right. Right. Right.

Jim (24:55.911)
Well he I have to go back to the Civil War every time. Like can can how about we start now and then you tell us how it happened in history? 'Cause that's why I picked up the book. I wanna know what's happening now.

Like, okay, but to understand this, we're gonna have to go all the way back to the civil war. So like do that late, do it in the middle of the book.

Lionel (25:17.42)
There's foot there's these things called footnotes. Stuff it in the footnotes. Do do you have a clear story to tell me?

Jim (25:20.533)
Right. I mean, Keynes and Galbraith are very important to understand, and Wealth of Nations is very important to understand, and and all of that is true, but he spends most of the book doing like really spinning those those thinkers too, like like twisting them into like, and this is why their structure matches with my theory. It's like, yeah. Anyway.

Lionel (25:42.125)
Yeah.

Lionel (25:50.318)
Jim's had it. I've had it with you, assholes.

Jim (25:51.283)
I've had it. I'm done.

Lionel (25:56.226)
Ha ha ha

Jim (25:58.558)
Huh. and I know nothing. I really I'm fascinated by economics, but I'm you know, I don't I can't do the math. I mean, I think at some point with science and economics, you've got to be able to do the math. And so, you know, I'm I'm just an idiot when I talk about this stuff. But the science is interesting. I'd love to get Don Smith back on and maybe take some of our questions, like if we've got any new profound insights or kind of see where he's going and and what his his thought is as a

An astrophysicist and professor, what he's teaching, what his students are thinking. There's a lot of wacky stuff coming up about Girdle space, like like I just I just watched physicist talk about, you know, that the universe is basically turned in on itself and contradictory because Girdle's incompleteness theorem is like the only law of the universe, which is fascinating.

Lionel (26:53.142)
I

Jim (26:55.741)
You know, there's there's a lot of discussion about the real meaning of the double slit experiment. what you know th there are people are like it's only waves, it's only waves, there are no particles, and there are people like nope, there are no par there are no waves, it's only particles. it's a really interesting time, I I think in physics. So we're really grappling with some the big stuff.

Lionel (27:17.314)
Well the interesting the really interesting part is that they've got these monster telescopes now. They've one of the key things, they got the Jay they got the James Webb and what's the one that they're launching very soon? The the the wide field one, the one that can take like a huge section of the sky. It takes a it takes it takes with the same precision, if not greater precision than the Hubble, but

Jim (27:24.245)
Mm-hmm.

Lionel (27:44.833)
It takes a picture that's a thousand, that's a hundred times bigger than than the Hubble's picture. And they're really so but whatever. It's what the hell is that thing called? But anyway, yeah, every time they get a download, it's like, yep, that's wrong. Yep, we're wrong about that one.

Jim (28:01.065)
Yeah. Well so j just like you're gonna remember the name of that telescope, I just remember the name of the guy who I thought had invented the MP three was Jaron Linear. Do you have you ever heard of I see I I remember him saying he was w that yeah, MPEG level three? Was that it? That that

Lionel (28:11.842)
Did he invent the MP three?

Lionel (28:19.67)
It's it's MPEG it's it's MPEG two layer three is what it actually stands for. It's the audio layer, it's layer three, it's the audio layer of the MPEG two video standard.

Jim (28:23.514)
Right. Yeah. I thought that

Jim (28:31.229)
Early on I had you know, before, you know, b obviously before Napster and all that, I had heard that he was working on compressing audio so that it could be streamed over the web. He's quite old, yeah. It is but his his dreads look great. And he's a really interesting thinker. I mean, he's working for Microsoft and he he has some dubious ideas about AI that I don't really agree with, but who the hell am I? I mean, he's Jaron Lanier. you know, he's a legend. Yeah.

Lionel (28:39.372)
How old is he? He must be really old. Okay, good.

Lionel (28:54.405)
All ideas about AI are dubious. Yeah. no the interesting thing, did we talk about MP3 already? I'm sure we did on this show, right? Yeah.

Jim (29:02.419)
We did, we did because yeah, because and right to sum up what we were saying before is it doesn't just compress the file size, it it limits no it it throws things away, right? It do it it's it it gets rid of duplicate audio elements.

Lionel (29:14.296)
throws things out.

Yeah.

Lionel (29:22.196)
It's it's real it's real power is not in mathematics, like traditional compression. Like traditional compression is just let's find a really big long chunk of numbers, a big chunk of data and assign it a unique number. And that way we can we can crush, crush, crush, crush the data stream down to the minimum amount. The the MP3 algorithm relies the its trick card, its real card is psychoacoustics, which is what the Fraunhofer Institute did, which is they they

Jim (29:35.71)
Right.

Jim (29:49.355)
yeah.

Lionel (29:51.213)
They did enormous psychological studies in how people hear things. And they found out that people can't tell stereo separation and bass frequencies. Like if it's coming from the left channel or the right channel, people people can't really determine if it's coming from the left channel or the right channel. So they said, okay, fine, fuck it. Let's throw out the throw out the stereo on the bass. And if there's two instruments playing, if there's like a clarinet and a guitar string and they're playing v roughly the same note.

Jim (30:09.031)
Right. Yeah.

Lionel (30:18.732)
And one's much and one's significantly louder than the other, you don't hear the other one. You don't hear it at all. It's really interesting. It'll show up on the meters, it'll show up on the on the the waveform plot, but the human ear does not hear it. and so

Jim (30:23.273)
Yeah, yeah.

Jim (30:32.361)
Yeah, but and and it contributes to why they sound it why MP3s sound so flat. I mean, if you have any discernment about music at all, it's it's because they've taken out the extra information that you can kind of barely perceive that in order to make well, I mean, at the time everybody had dial-up. I mean, how how the hell were you gonna and then there were, you know, live streams that just, you know, YAML I did some YAML programming early on for like internet radio when that was just the beginning. and

Lionel (30:50.499)
Well

Jim (31:02.035)
Yeah, that stuff was that that stream was really horrendous. Yeah.

Lionel (31:05.324)
Well, yeah, if you're talking about 32 kilobits per second, which is what people were doing back in the in in the frontier days, they were doing 32 kilobits per second. But once you got to 128 kilobits per second, MP3 sounds pretty damn good. so yeah, it's variable bit rate. That's another thing about it. But it's very interesting because it's about it's it's it's just fascinating because it's a different take.

Jim (31:22.214)
Right. Right, right, right.

Jim (31:27.518)
Right.

Lionel (31:32.782)
'Cause we're so used to dealing with mathematical encryption, lossless mathematical encryption that it's based on psychoacoustics and they're throwing things out. They're throwing things out the window. So I find that fascinating. But anyway, we've we've plowed that ground before.

Jim (31:47.648)
How did we get there? I don't remember how we got there. I remember Jaron Jaron Lanier, right. And you're gonna remember the name of that giant telescope that they're the which I haven't I haven't heard about. I

Lionel (31:49.845)
E dreadlocks.

Lionel (31:57.632)
well let's look god damn it, let's look it up.

Jim (32:00.467)
I do know that there's two competing theories about the expansion of the universe now. is it I I forget whether it's Korea or Japan. Scientists in Korea or Japan and the United States are having a feud over

I don't remember if it's quasars now. I was listening to this very late at night. but yeah, it's you know, the it may be that the universe isn't isn't increasingly expanding. that it's expanding but it's not accelerating. That we you know, there are scientists in Japan or Korea that just think we got that wrong.

Which is which is you know, it's like just about the time that we we got used to it, you know? Like Yeah. You you are very stupid.

Lionel (32:47.34)
I bet they're really proud of themselves. They're probably just like strutting around with their big egos. You are very stupid. We know what's going on. my God. The Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope, NASA's next great observatory, now projected to launch in September of this year.

Jim (32:58.757)
You are very stupid, and we have figured it out.

Lionel (33:12.302)
and I'm just reading I think NASA's thing. it's called Roman for short. and its surveying capabilities are over one thousand times faster than Hubble and can chart two hundred times more sky. It's got like this seven foot wide digital camera.

receptacle. It's like bigger than your bigger than your house. and so it's got this enormous retina. And it can see it looks like something from the from the the expanse. It looks really evil. and and it's gonna take just huge pictures of stars so they can do measurements of the mass of all the stars at the center of the galaxy and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But that's the interesting thing that's going on is that

Jim (33:49.246)
Nice.

Jim (34:00.316)
No.

Lionel (34:04.352)
Much in the same way that, you know, back in the fourteen hundreds, it's like, okay, Ptolemy's not cutting it anymore. Our you know, it's good we're good enough. We can observe things well enough now. We've got enough continuity that we we can't fudge these numbers anymore. Like there's something wrong. There's something wrong here. We gotta figure it out. And the same thing with these things. It's great. They're just they're generating tons of information. Everybody's like, Whoa, yep, that one goes out the window. Yep.

Jim (34:21.301)
Right.

Lionel (34:32.354)
That one goes out the window and it's good. It's good. It keeps us fresh, keeps us on our toes. So that's that's the Nancy Grace Roman. I'm I'm all a fan of these. The the the JWST, the James White is such an ass kicking. I followed that whole thing. Did you do that? Did you load like the website and like watch it? They had a website where they had like all the stats of the satellite in like real time and you could watch it and say.

Jim (34:33.994)
Yeah.

Jim (34:45.545)
Yeah, no. It's it's amazing.

Jim (34:51.337)
No.

Jim (34:57.396)
cool.

Lionel (34:59.116)
Days until we deploy the sale, days until you know we're tuning the telescope. No, it was such a it was it was NASA on its game. It was just like here's here's the control panel for the yeah, don't you know of course you can't touch any of the buttons, but it was it was really cool. It was really cool and it was just great. It was such a great time, and I'm glad it all worked. I hope it worked out. You never know. I mean, that talk about a Capricorn one situation. Let's say the JWST failed.

Jim (35:07.722)
Well

Jim (35:13.801)
Yeah, right.

Jim (35:29.26)
no, that would be terrible.

Lionel (35:29.386)
Well, it's out at the L5 point. Nobody's gonna see. So and it's just sending back bits. So can you imagine there's probably this back room of these people? Like, okay, we need another picture of Andromeda. Can I it's my daughter's birthday? Shut up. I need another picture of the Horsehead Galaxy, you freak. You can go visit your daughter's birthday after you do that. Anyway.

Jim (35:33.832)
Right.

Yeah.

Jim (35:42.236)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

Lionel (35:58.113)
So that's that. What else is going on?

Jim (36:02.321)
not not really. You know, I I I've done a lot of traveling lately and I am really happy to have one weekend now where I am home. and I don't have the kids and I am just basically I don't have to do anything going to brunch on Sunday with some people, but that's that is it. So I'm psyched. I should probably we should

Lionel (36:03.214)
You got anything else to

Jim (36:29.365)
We should have a a thing to read, a thing to do.

Lionel (36:38.508)
Yes.

Jim (36:39.861)
I'm just changing my camera again because the sun is the sun is moving. I don't I thought the sun was f at a fixed point in the sky. But yeah, get somebody on that.

Lionel (36:44.93)
Yeah, what the hell? Can't we fix that?

Jim (36:55.401)
But yeah. Bronto and Sunday, you know, I'd maybe something maybe something to watch. One thing that I you know, these kind of forgotten sci-fi films, the f the ones that bombed, I'm I'm interested in maybe finding some of those and watching those.

Lionel (36:55.448)
So you're going to brunch on Sunday.

Lionel (37:16.6)
Sure. Did you watch Solent Running?

Jim (37:20.538)
No, I didn't watch Silent Running. That's Bruce Stern, right? Yeah.

Lionel (37:22.142)
watch Silent Running. Let's put that on the list. It's an easy film to watch. It's a lot of fun. Silent Running. Did you watch THX 1138?

Jim (37:30.087)
I did see that a while ago, but I I think it it's worth another watch because I didn't really I didn't really get it the first time. So yeah, those are two good ones.

Lionel (37:33.678)
It's great film.

Okay, so y th those are two. You give me two. What two do you want to give me?

Jim (37:42.933)
I'm we're gonna do four films. I don't I don't have them off right at my fingertips. They're

Lionel (37:47.308)
Yeah, sure.

Lionel (37:52.952)
Well, just name some films that you like. Maybe I haven't seen them.

Jim (37:57.079)
Mm, mm, mm.

Lionel (38:00.579)
I've never seen Alien from end to end, but it's a scary film. I don't like scary films.

Jim (38:03.999)
really? It is a scary film. It's a great film though. That yeah, that one in Aliens is is th the first two are really fantastic. Yeah, that's really good.

Lionel (38:08.694)
Yeah, it is, but it's scary.

I liked Aliens a lot better. Aliens was much more sort of like Duke Nuke them, much more mainstream. Whereas the first one was much more unnerving. yeah. Starship Troopers. I've never seen that. No. No. Okay, so I'll do there's Starship Troopers. What else? Pick another one.

Jim (38:18.513)
Yeah, exactly. yeah. You've got the BFG. yeah.

Jim (38:33.043)
Have you seen Starship Troopers? that's my recommendation. Starship Troopers. Be you know what's interesting too is they're doing a remake of Starship Troopers. And if you watch that film, it'll be interesting to see what they change. yeah. I and and also it's based on a Highland book, which I haven't read, but maybe you have. Okay. Well, totally just watch Starship Troopers. It

Lionel (38:49.484)
Okay.

Lionel (38:55.81)
Yes. Neither have I.

Jim (39:02.407)
It's sort of horror, but it actually it's it's much more than that. It's really interesting. And it doesn't become apparent why it's interesting until later in the film. You you've read about yeah, yeah. You know you know that. Yes, exactly.

Lionel (39:08.833)
Right.

Lionel (39:12.8)
It's Paul well, I've seen a lot of I've seen a documentary about it, so I already know. But it's Paul Verhoeven, right? Yeah, he's he's he is he is a very effective and annoying person. Like Robocop is a really good movie. Did Verhoven do Total Recall? No.

Jim (39:26.037)
Right, it is.

Jim (39:33.711)
N no, I thought wasn't that Ridley Scott? No, it might have been Ridley Scott. No? Was it Verhoven?

Lionel (39:36.972)
No, no, no, no, no. No, total recall is not Redley's. God, God for Total Recall. Hang on a second. That's an annoying goddamn film. But really. it's Verhoeven. Yeah, it's Verhoeven. Yeah, he has.

Jim (39:49.256)
It Yeah. Yeah. And kind of the same idea, right? I mean he he he's got this thing that he does with his films. It it's not just that Yeah, yeah.

Lionel (39:59.137)
It's lurid. It's lurid. He he really just goes all in on disgusting American culture and he just cranks it up to twelve. And you can tell he just absolutely loves shoving it in people's faces. It's like, you want to see what you look like to here it is. Just jamming it. And I'm like, okay, we're we're along for the ride. Go ahead, pal.

Jim (40:03.752)
Hmm.

Jim (40:23.519)
Have you seen minority report?

Lionel (40:26.284)
Yeah, that didn't that didn't make many ripples on my consciousness.

Jim (40:29.523)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lionel (40:34.104)
We'll do Starship Troopers. I've already seen Robocop a long time ago. I saw Robocop. But these are not really science fiction films. Like good heart like Silent Running is definitely a science fiction film. And THX 1130 is definitely a science fiction film. did you ever see The Andromeda Strain?

Jim (40:35.677)
Yeah. Silent running. Yeah.

Jim (40:46.419)
That's cool.

Jim (40:50.601)
You know what might be fun? The Andromeda strain would be cool. I also was thinking it'd be interesting to w rewatch Logan's Run. Because they've actually I think they put back a number of scenes that were cut from the original film. Okay.

Lionel (40:59.468)
Okay, I'll do.

Lionel (41:04.108)
I watched Logan's Run. Starship Troopers and Logan's Run. But you've seen these two.

Jim (41:09.063)
And I've got I've seen but I haven't seen Logan Runs Logan's run in a long time. So this is what I'm doing this weekend. I'm gonna be watching science fiction films, which suits me fine. That's what I want. That's very good. That's very good.

Lionel (41:18.242)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. None of this like, you know, G seven reevaluation of debt financing on a global scale post World War II. No, no, no, no, no. We've paid. We've paid. I don't know what I've bought with it, but I've paid a packet.

Jim (41:23.465)
Jim (41:27.119)
No and and and no. And no Hungarian films and yeah, unless it's a science fiction film.

We paid.

Jim (41:41.653)
the one like one last thing I would leave you with is very interesting. The social media is being crowded by han you know, selfie movies. Yeah, go ahead.

Lionel (41:53.423)
Whole second whole second, whole second. What two are you watching? You're watching THX eleven thirty?

Jim (41:57.768)
Silent running and THX eleven thirty eight.

Lionel (42:01.282)
Okay.

Jim (42:02.621)
And I'm gonna rewatch Logan's front.

Lionel (42:04.546)
Now these are all very, very mainstream films. If there's anybody out there who says you guys are just rewatching the same bullshit that everybody watches, you know, here's some really weird ones. I'm up for that.

Jim (42:07.879)
I know. I

Jim (42:15.827)
There's a guy who there's a guy who lists, you know, the science fiction films that kind of fell through the cracks. And I what I want to do is actually go through some of them and and because some of them really should have fallen through the cracks. And I don't want to waste our time with those. Yeah. So I want to kind of review some of them and and and at least see the beginnings of them and see if they're worth it. And then and then we can talk about them. because I think, yeah, I think that would be worthwhile, but it takes a little more setup. can I switch topics now?

Lionel (42:27.65)
Yeah, they're there for a reason.

Lionel (42:43.17)
Yeah, go ahead. About about TikTok and movies.

Jim (42:45.361)
yeah, we can close on this. and cause I don't know how to feel about this. there are a number of videos coming out of Russia. It's all women and they're all beautiful. So that's suspect right away. But maybe all the women are beautiful in Russia. they and they're some of them are like in Crimea and they don't know if they should leave, and then the train station was bombed, and how do they get home? And they're just

Lionel (42:58.796)
Right right away. It's

Jim (43:14.461)
making kind of selfie videos and posting them and somehow we can see them, which is also weird. And then there but see there's there's one of a there's one of a soldier who is like, I'm coming for you, Putin. Get ready. You know, I need to sit down with you and and and you need to meet my demands. And I've got people hiding, I've got other soldiers hiding all over Russia. If you don't and then there and then there's a woman in, you know, there's several women in in in Moscow and in different places in Russia.

And they're like, We're an oil company. Why is there no gas at the pumps? And there's one there's one well, no, that's it. It's but then all the comments are like Crimea River, right? I mean, it's it's yeah, this is what happens when you invade another country. Yeah, that's the pun. It it comes up a lot, yeah. Crimea River. Yeah, seriously.

Lionel (43:51.148)
I can answer that one, but go ahead.

Lionel (44:01.248)
Is that a pun? my seriously? my god. Really, the internet should be shut down. Honestly. It's a it's a crime against humanity.

Jim (44:12.277)
I feel like there's a bigger point here. There's something bigger going on, you know, but

Lionel (44:18.956)
Yeah, it's called it's called AI generated videos manufactured to like generate views. I don't believe any of that stuff. No.

Jim (44:25.989)
Right. You don't think any of that's real? No.

Lionel (44:31.5)
No, not not that I have any basis not that I have any actual evidentiary base for that feeling. I just assume now that everything is phony. Es yeah.

Jim (44:39.155)
Yeah, I know it there it is it it's like i there's some quality about this that just seems kind of produced, even though it's kind of set up as like selfie videos. I don't know if it's Ukraine propaganda. It could easily be that. That could that could be what it is. It couldn't be Russian propaganda because it's very critical of Russia. There was I remember the last one was just really like somebody just cursing out Putin and cursing out Russia and you know.

Lionel (44:49.432)
Right.

Lionel (44:55.552)
Or Russian propaganda, whoever.

Lionel (45:00.718)
It's like the I saw the

Lionel (45:08.822)
Okay, well that I understand.

Jim (45:08.959)
Just just you know what I mean? That's not gonna be produced by the Kremlin. it could be produced by Ukraine. This could be part of the PSYOP that they're doing.

Lionel (45:19.768)
I'm not saying it's psyops. I'm not even saying it's state sponsored. It could just be some person sitting in their room just generating something for some reason to impress their boyfriend or because they read a book about who knows? Who? Well, I'm just saying what's I mean, so what's the point? I mean, what needle is it moving?

Jim (45:34.227)
Yeah, I'm gonna look at these again and see.

Jim (45:44.958)
It doesn't know there, it's not moving a needle. It's it's just I'm just, you know, my first question is where are these coming from? How are they getting out of Russia? First of all. I think the woman at the train station couldn't get out of Crimea. That was that was actually genuine. But there's a lot of these videos. and they're sort of generated so that people can like go, Boo hoo, Russia, you did this. And it's this very

I don't know. It it it it kind of betrays a kind of cruelty and a little bit of ignorance. But a lot of also a lot of them also are like, don't they understand what's happening in their own country? No, of course they don't. Of course they don't. That's the whole point.

Lionel (46:24.802)
Well, the thing I loved was I speaking of that, you know, call me a dinosaur, but every now and then the New York Times actually does write something worth reading. And there is this one article when that refinery in Moscow is bombed. And they they interviewed a guy who lived nearby. And he said, honestly, he said, All my neighbors, he said they they all walked out of their houses, they came here and they looked at it, they said

Jim (46:41.141)
Mm-hmm.

Lionel (46:54.176)
How could this possibly happen? And I say to myself, seriously, can't you put two and two together?

Jim (46:56.244)
Right.

Jim (47:00.563)
That's that's exactly the kind of video and that's exactly the kind of response, right? It's like, yeah, it's Crimea River. It's it's don't you know what your country's been doing all this time?

Lionel (47:12.546)
Well, it's it's or at the very least, it's like, no, there's a logical relationship here. I mean, regardless of whether Putin's incursion into into Ukraine is justified or not, it's just like, yeah, if you send an armored column into somebody's country, regardless of whether you're right or wrong about it, there's gonna be repercussions. So it's kind of it's kind of puzzling when people go, My God, why why why do they hate us this much? Why are they doing this to us?

Jim (47:17.972)
Yeah.

Jim (47:38.511)
Right. Right. Why are they doing this to us? Yeah.

Lionel (47:39.788)
Which was also some of the thing that came from 9-11. It's like, why are they doing so this? It's like they there's been whole they've written whole books about why they're doing this to us, you know? And that's irresponsible.

Jim (47:49.416)
Right. Right. I mean, some of it also is how could this happen? Why don't we have better air defense? it was a different, different different issue, yeah.

Lionel (47:55.503)
Well that's a s that's a completely separate issue. That's a completely separate issue. And the funny thing about that did you see that video of the of the top blowing off that gas tank?

Jim (48:04.263)
Yeah. And it right. And you know, I know what the funny we're gonna say, the funny thing about that.

Lionel (48:09.44)
Is that is probably caused by themselves.

Jim (48:11.613)
Right, it was caused by anti it was caused by their anti drone fire. Yeah. Yeah.

Lionel (48:15.134)
anti-drone the shoulder launch missile base a man pads as they call it and and the basically they fired at the drone of their missile anti Where's Sergei? he's yeah he he's on vacation yeah he's he's yeah he's he's not answering his cell phone anymore

Jim (48:23.167)
Can you imagine the whoops? I mean what what what do you what c yeah. mmm yeah. fuck. fuck.

Lionel (48:38.894)
Yeah, Sergey, Sergey, just like just go somewhere for like a year. Call me in about a year, because I'm telling you, they're pissed at you. They're really pissed at you. Okay, so just leave and hide. Go to your go to your cottage by the pond and just stay there for like a year.

Jim (48:39.248)
no.

Do over do over.

Jim (48:48.532)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jim (48:56.069)
boy.

Yeah. Don't go up any elevators.

Oof. Don't drive any cars.

Lionel (49:05.56)
But yeah, there's there's a certain cruelty involved in which I don't like. Like there's this proliferation of things like, you know, mementos of, you know, pieces of metal carved from artillery shells that killed people. It's like, mm, I you know, I know that if you you I'm not on the front lines and you guys are. So I'm not I'm not making a comment about that, but I still have to say something, which is like, you know what?

Jim (49:16.937)
Yeah. I know.

Jim (49:22.931)
Right, right, right.

Lionel (49:29.824)
It's just like we could do a l do with a little less of I don't I don't see how you're like really ad moving the ball forward by engaging in this behavior.

Jim (49:36.007)
Well, I totally understand anybody in Ukraine being heartless about this because they have a right. But ev but us, the rest of the world, you know, a little more perspective, yeah.

Lionel (49:48.973)
Yeah, you don't need to buy them. You don't need to buy this stuff. Yeah, it's just like don't just like if instead of spending just just write a check and send it in. But I don't know. There is there's all these schemes, and I don't I don't buy any of that stuff. But anyway, the fascinating thing is that if anything is clear, I mean it's amazing how identical the straight a whore moves in the Ukraine thing are. Like it's kind of funny in a way that

You get to a point where you're like, Hold a second, this is exactly the same thing. So the Ukrainians are stopping the Red Army with golf carts, and the Iranians are stopping the US Navy with model airplanes.

Jim (50:29.46)
Yeah.

Lionel (50:31.01)
And it's like, yeah, it's the exact same thing. It's not the exact same thing, but it's very it's a very similar thing.

Jim (50:36.721)
No, no, yeah.

Jim (50:40.901)
The

It yes, it is. I mean it is. And that's a whole other discussion.

Lionel (50:50.158)
Okay, well we can cut it right now. I don't wanna I don't

Jim (50:51.177)
But no, but I mean I just mean like we don't I is the is the straight gonna open? Is it open? Is is there an agreement? Is there no agreement? it that's the thing that kind of blows my mind. It's like nobody really nobody knows.

Lionel (51:09.378)
Because I think that's for a reason. and I think the reason is is that we're sort of living in an era now where you don't take a stand on things. You don't pin yourself down. you just make these bold claims and you just keep moving on because you're fairly confident everybody will forget in twenty minutes.

Jim (51:12.701)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (51:35.668)
Right.

Lionel (51:36.79)
And that if people if people call you out on your previous statements, you just say they're haters. And you tell

Jim (51:44.093)
Yeah, but there are real there are real signs too, like gas prices going down. Gas prices probably gonna go up again.

Lionel (51:51.203)
Yeah, but you can say that has nothing to do with this. And you can just you can squirt ink in the water and just keep it going. And honestly the the and the to be and and on the other side of the thing is I think I mentioned last time, which is that, you know, you have these flash crowds in the media that all gather at one point.

Jim (51:53.832)
Mm-hmm.

Lionel (52:13.036)
You know, and you know, I remember they're telling us at one point, Ukraine is living on the sufferance of America. We they need the Abrams tank and they need the F-15 fighter, they need this or they're gonna collapse tomorrow. Well, we took all that away. Not only did they not collapse, they're thriving.

Jim (52:18.325)
Right.

Jim (52:32.553)
I mean, yeah, Japan sent them a blueprint for an anti-drone drone. And that has worked pretty well. And and and their drone technology is I mean, you call it golf carts. These things are actually a I saw it's in video. They're actually pretty awesome. I mean, you know, they're a little robot with with a gun, you know, that's it's they're they're much more fierce than a golf cart. But but yeah, they're not big.

Lionel (52:46.398)
Yeah. But they're basically yeah, they're

Lionel (52:56.066)
They're they're golf cart I mean they're kinda like the size of a golf cart.

Jim (53:01.031)
And the idea that they're just running fiber optic to these things, right? They're bypassing the whole Starlink problem and the whole Wi Fi thing. It's like, okay, fiber optic cable. It's incredible.

Lionel (53:03.81)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. 'Cause you can make miles and miles of it for pennies. So just let it trail out, just like a tow missile, TOW missile, the what is it? Something on wire.

TOWs, but that was a technology from the 1980s. It was literally a missile that you fired that it was a shoulder launch missile that trailed a cable as it went at like the speed of sound and the cable just spooled out and you could still control the missile by using the cable. It's a really old and you think like this is like bullshit technology. It's like what we're trailing a cable. It's like, no, it it works pretty goddamn good, honestly, because you can't jam it.

Jim (53:30.741)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (53:36.446)
Right.

Jim (53:44.775)
Right. 'Cause you can't hack it, you can't yeah, you can't jam it. Yeah.

Lionel (53:48.642)
You can't jam it and it's it's faster and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, do you have to go run it off?

Jim (53:55.088)
I think yeah, why don't we bring it to an end and I don't have to go anywhere actually. But but why don't so I'm I'm excited. We're gonna we're gonna watch four films. We're gonna watch some some really bad sci fi and we can talk about it, which which which will be refreshing, I think.

Lionel (53:58.095)
Okay.

Lionel (54:04.694)
Some some shitty films.

Lionel (54:11.329)
Okay.

It'll be it'll be a palate cleanser after this t time wandering in the wilderness of high intelligentsia.

Jim (54:16.063)
Yeah.

All right. So if you like our podcast and you've made it this far in, think about think about subscribing to the Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Jimmy Fentino. It is my Patreon. I do all the editing and stuff like that. and you get there's a link. There's a link from funny not funny.net or funny not funny dot big ego dot com. Those go to the same place. You can click there.

Lionel (54:35.702)
He does. I don't do anything at all. It's all j seriously.

Jim (54:46.739)
subscribe. There's a bunch of other stuff. I'm a songwriter and a novel writer and all that stuff goes up on the Patreon too. So if you got like three bucks to throw at us a month, that would be awesome. Other than that, I will talk to you in a week, Lionel.

Lionel (55:02.318)
Okay, bye.

Jim (55:03.573)
Bye.